Talk:Ocean Beach, San Diego

Untitled

The intro to this article seems pretty subjective, a NPOV would improve it's quality. --Paul E. Ester 05:38, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

response

well yes, but i identified this page. most residents would i think.

Regarding the first paragraph not being neutral... if you have ever even been to Ocean Beach you would know that is populated by a more liberated class of people. Dreadlocks are a very very very very common site around here. If you don't live here there is no way you would know about this stuff and there is no way you would know that yes... that article is pretty neutral in its portrayal of Ocean Beach. It is the people of OB that are not neutral. The wiki on this is pretty damn accurate, although... the Arizona Club just shut down last month and is no longer in business... which is pretty damn sad.

Any citations for Ocean Beach, San Diego, California name?

Besides the current undocumented, unprofessional and unconventional convention of naming city community article names in Wikipedia according to the rather bizarre [[community, city, state]] format, is there any reason for this article to be named Ocean Beach, San Diego, California? In particular, are there any citations of official or common usage references to Ocean Beach with this convoluted name? I know that the name Ocean Beach has some ambiguity issues, so, again putting aside the oddball community-specific convention, and instead using the more standard Wikipedia convention for handling disambiguities, how about Ocean Beach (San Diego)? --Serge 01:07, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

That is the disambiguation style we use for landmarks instead of populaterd places, and would further confuse matters. -Will Beback 22:09, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but that's absurd. Discerning between communities and landmarks is gist for the text of the article, not the name. I just realized that the root problem with the current U.S. city/community unconventional "convention" is that it is an attempt to overload the name of articles with information that belongs in the text. What belongs in the name of the article is the name of the subject being covered in the article, not information about what it is. Information about what it is (city, community, landmark, person, concept, etc.) belongs in the text. Conventionally, the only exception to this (outside of U.S. city and community article names) is when there is an actual ambiguity issue (not a crystall-balled anticipation for one) in which case it is appropriate to use some minor disambiguation information in parenthesis. But the name, in this case Ocean Beach, is conventionally all that is outside of parentheses. --Serge 23:20, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I am pretty new to Wikipedia so I don't know 100% how to do this, but I am a long time resident of Ocean Beach. Regarding the name of Ocean Beach... lets see here, there is a nice big sing that says Ocean Beach along Sunset Cliffs Blvd as you are entering the area. Or how about all the flags hanging from the lamposts that say Ocean Beach. Or maybe the big steel gate to the pier that says Ocean Beach. Or maybe the fact there is an Ocean Beach school and an Ocean Beach Public Library. Sounds like its the official community to me. Ryan R. OB, San Diego, CA

In order to insure the validity of Wikipedia, it is imperative that it remains unbiased. Your comments regarding John Small are certainly biased and have no place here. They’re other mediums to express your displeasure.

NPOV

I want to remove the last paragraph from the Economy section. It is clearly not NPOV.Tcpekin 01:35, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Please don't claim "cleary not NPOV". If you were from Ocean Beach or ever lived in Ocean Beach you might have a different opinion. Have you considered that perhaps you are just ignorant and unqualified to comment on this topic?

I live in Point Loma. You, or the editor portray the restaurants as the evil empire. I deleted "monopolistic economic situation in Ocean Beach" from the last paragraph. Tcpekin 03:47, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Point Loma is not Ocean Beach

You are right, but I went to school in Ocean Beach and spend a lot of time down there, either at the beach or just walking around.Tcpekin 03:54, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I would like to say that the edit on the last paragraph of the Economy section is much much better. Also on a different note, can people please sign their posts, even if it is an IP address?

change

I am a 15 year old girl that has lived in OB my whole life. I currently don't see anything wrong with how the OB page is but I don't claim to know much about how to be politically correct. I would like to add a few things to the OB page but I don't know how. I know my grammar and spelling aren't the best so if anyone is willing to edit and upload these onto the Ocean Beach page I would be most grateful.

Besides Newport, Voltaire is the second shopping street with a few bars shops and our semi famous grocery store Ocean Beach People's Organic Food Market. It is a member-owned vegetarian consumer co-op that has been serving the community since 1971. The Co-op offers an extensive selection of organic produce, grocery, dairy, and bulk foods and herbs, as well as vitamins and homeopathics, cruelty-free bodycare, and aromatherapy products. It is San Diego's only community owned grocery store. They specialize in products that are organic, wholesome, minimally processed, cruelty-free, and environmentally safe.

Every Wednesday a farmers market is held on Newport Avenue. All different kinds of things are sold there, from fresh fruits and flowers, to jewelry, to clothes and handmade crafts. There is always music either from a band or someone trying to make a bit of money. Usually a combination of both. Food is also sold and it is a fun event to go to for some fun.

Sincerely,

Kaarin —The preceding unsigned comment was added by

68.107.48.184 (talk) 07:25, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

Entire Page should be re-written

I lived in San Diego for 5 years, had many friends in ocean beach, and went there often. Reading this page is like listening to a local who's been living their whole life in Ocean Beach. It is not NPOV, and everytime you point this out, you are sure to draw critism of the author who wants to portray ocean beach as some hippie paradise. Before anyone gets mad at me, Im not some close minded bigot, but I definently didnt come to read this page just to hear some local glorify THEIR version of ocean beach. This article should be completely re-written in a NPOV manner.

"hippie paradise"...spoken like a person who clearly doesn't live in Ocean Beach. There is no glorification, the article seems to me to be pretty spot on about the true Ocean Beach community. I would argue that the substance of the article is valid. Perhaps the problem is that there is a perception of the community from people who don't live in Ocean Beach, that is very different from the reality. I see plenty of people questioning the validity of the article and I don't find it coincidental that none of these people are from Ocean Beach. Do you not see that you are on the outside looking in and perhaps unqualified to comment on the substance?

---

I have made my home in Ocean Beach for a very long time and I am really sad reading the page about Ocean Beach and the comments on this talk page. I would like to ask all Ocean Beach residents to choose to rewrite this page so that it meets the standards of Wikipedia. The items in the pages are valid in the sense that there are many people who live in Ocean Beach who have the feelings and experiences described. And the fact of their validity is irrelevant because opinions and experiences are by their very nature biased. Because of this, opinions of any kind have no place in an encyclopedia. I believe that any other encyclopedia other than Wikipedia would never represent OB this way. I agree with the majority of opinions listed in the article and I can still see that there is clearly bias on the part of the writer. The write is passionate, yes. I love it; I am so pleased to call you my neighbor. And please, I beg you not to use the Wikipedia site as the place to share these opinions; I am asking you all to help me make sure the OB article sticks to facts. 68.228.199.121 06:04, 26 December 2006 (UTC) (KS - 12/15/2006)

I agree with you entirely. It is important for us to set aside our personal feelings for the sake of the article. Even if everyone in OB agreed with the author (and I have no doubt that most do) it would still not be proper in an encyclopedia.

Vandalism

An anonymous user or users is persistently adding the line "If you are from Boston, you are not welcome in Ocean Beach. Go Home." I consider this a straightforward case of vandalism, but as the user/users is/are coming from a range of IP addresses, I'm not sure what can be done. Wikipedia's policy in the area is fairly ambiguous, as far as I can tell. There seems little point in leaving a warning on the talk page for a shared IP address, although I have done that. In the meantime I'm just reverting, reverting, reverting until I can figure out a better way to handle this. Duncow 19:08, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Boston transplants aren't welcome in Ocean Beach. What's the problem? Perhaps, you are seeing multiple ips because you are deleting content that many users agree with.

A blanket statement that Boston transplants are not welcome is rather provocative. If there is a history of Bostonians being made to feel unwelcome, some explanation is required, ideally with some specific references to back it up (for example, newspaper articles, or whatever). Then the statement could be reworded so that it has a neutral point of view.

Whether many users agree with the statement is not the issue -- the issue is that of maintaining a neutral point of view, a fundamental Wikipedia principle.

Perhaps "vandalism" is too strong a word in this case. However, I felt that it counted as vandalism because it amounted to a spurious attack on Bostonians dropped into the middle of the article without any context or explanation. Duncow 21:37, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Are you from Ocean Beach? If you were, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

To me, Ocean Beach is not the issue here -- Wikipedia is the issue. There are rules to say what can and cannot go into a Wikipedia article, and rules about how they are written. Take a look at Wikipedia's policies. If nothing else, the Boston comment is not verifiable. It isn't enough for the person making the comment to say that he or she is from Ocean Beach and therefore an expert on the subject. You have to point to something published to back up what you are saying, and I think this is all the more important in this case, given the provocative nature of the comment.

I understand that many long-time O.B. residents have strong feelings about their community, and I'm all in favor of O.B. residents contributing their knowledge of the area to Wikipedia. But Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia, and I (and many others) would like it to stay that way. Ocean Beach deserves an objective, verifiable Wikipedia entry for the benefit of those who (like me) do not live there, as well as for the people who do. So if you have something to contribute, great, but please do it in a way that's consistent with Wikipedia policies.

I admit it's not always obvious what the right thing to do is, but if you make a good-faith effort, you shouldn't get stomped on. Duncow 19:47, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

More to OB than what's here

Did you know that there is a webcam on top of the Ocean Beach Hotel for surfers to check the waves (and pervs to check the girls in bikinis)? http://www.obhotel.com/webcam.html What about the international hostel, temporary home to many visitors to our fine city? http://members.aol.com/OBIhostel/hostel/ Just a couple of many, many additions to the OB page. Thanks! 71.138.56.209 23:04, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Parking

I reworded the section about the farmer's market and parking because I felt it violated a couple of Wikipedia's guidelines, particularly the use of weasel words such as "Many consider...". See Wikipedia:Avoid_weasel_words. If you can provide some kind of evidence that the community feels strongly one way or the other about parking (a survey quoted in a newspaper article, for example), then the statement would be fine. Otherwise, I think this statement violates the weasel-words policy and probably the NPOV policy.

Wikipedia is meant to be an objective online encyclopedia, rather than a forum for people to express their opinions. The NPOV guideline article explains the difference and the issues involved. Duncow 07:05, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

First Paragraph

Ocean Beach (also known as O.B.) is a beachfront neighborhood of San Diego, California

was changed to:

Ocean Beach (also known as O.B.) is a tight-knit beachfront neighborhood of San Diego, California, known for its openmindedness and fierce independence.

Please don't revert my edit and please assume it is made in good faith (it is). While the editor may believe the community to be tight-knit, openminded and have fierce independence, these are not NPOV and do not fit the standards of Wikipedia. Please discuss here before making any additional changes. Ryanpm4545 23:19, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

That's the second time you've reverted my edit without discussing it on the talk page. Please discuss first. Ryanpm4545 15:16, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Addition Suggestions

Drop box for suggestions to add to the page...

The Black
Dago Choppers
Hodad's
Robb Field
The Meaning of Pairs of Shoes Hung on Power Lines

Please add to the list, and hopefully we can circle back and fill it in. Thanks, Froggacuda 23:29, 24 May 2007 (OB)

How about "US out of OB" and "OB"(seagull in flight, AKA instant bust outside of OB) bumper stickers?

I don't think it's prudent to include Dago Choppers, though the shirts are iconic. (I have 2) any history would be speculative or hearsay. If the history were at all factual don't use your ISP, I "hear" you may have used to have a keg party in your honor merely for telling it. Did I say something? where? who? wasn't me. I didn't say the name. They have s pretty cool website, last time I checked the Dago link didn't work (fitting, huh?) but Berdoo and the LA links were interesting.

I hate to break the news to you guys but OB is nearly extinct. My neighbor is the guy who's knocking down the duplex adjacent to Dog's and putting up a 3 story, the other 15 will fall one by one. Once the RE market blip is over OB will be a memory, simply because redevelopment and soaring land prices mean Obecians can't afford to live here unless they become yuppies.

THE SPACEMAN LIVES. Well, on a postcard. 76.212.146.222 07:29, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Opening Paragraph

I removed this from the opening paragraph.

"known for its openmindedness and fierce independence. Comprised of an eclectic mix of surfers, punks, bikers, granolas, intellectuals, and families, few things are not tolerated. Many consider Ocean Beach the last bastion for native San Diegans adamant about protecting the character of the city and having an affordable place to call their own. With a large population of renters, the trend in the early part of the 21st century of Condo Conversions and a lack of affordable housing has angered many members of the community."

It's not neutral. Please provide citations, or leave it off.

Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryanpm4545 (talk • contribs) 23:58, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Oceanbeachsign.jpg

Image:Oceanbeachsign.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 21:10, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Commercial references?

Several recent changes amount to little more than advertisements for particular hotels. Is this permitted by Wikipedia's rules?

MelanieN (talk) 02:02, 22 September 2008 (UTC)MelanieN

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Navajo, San Diego, California which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 06:46, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Head shops on Newport

There are some, though. Why's it inappropriate? Just asking. This is the edit in question. — alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 02:53, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, there are a few head shops on and near Newport. There are also drug stores, laundromats, car repair facilities, banks, T-shirt shops, tattoo parlors, and a pet store. I don't think there is any need to detail them all! In any case, the sentence from which I removed them was about "visitor-serving establishments such as restaurants, bars, head shops, and surf shops". Head shops are not typically considered to be visitor-serving establishments (which traditionally would include hotels, restaurants, bars, souvenir shops, and entertainment venues). --MelanieN (talk) 14:11, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

In any case, I see that head shops are already mentioned under "community", where they are appropriate. --MelanieN (talk) 14:14, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

You're right, of course. I took surf shops out of the sentence on the same rationale. The surf shops are probably less there to serve visitors than the head shops anyway.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 15:19, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for a whole string of good improvements to the article this morning! --MelanieN (talk) 15:44, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

I disagree with your deletion of the Kiwanis club based on your assumption that all communities have one. You might think the same about Rotary or Lions, except that Ocean Beach does NOT have a Rotary club or a Lions club - Kiwanis is the only service club in OB. IMO the Kiwanis club is no less notable or significant than the merchants association or the community planning board (all communities have them too). --MelanieN (talk) 15:55, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

OK, I'll put it back, if you haven't already

Restaurant and pier

I restored the "restaurant and bait shop" to the pier. You deleted it saying "there's probably no need to mention restaurant and bait shop on pier; most piers have them. it's probably more notable when they don't, e.g. the Venice fishing pier in LA". Actually this is the only pier in San Diego that DOES have a restaurant or bait shop. Imperial Beach Pier doesn't, neither does Shelter Island Pier, neither does Crystal Pier. You have improved this article enormously today, but deleting information because of your hunch that it is obvious or unnecessary may not always be an improvement. JMO. --MelanieN (talk) 21:12, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

No problem. Can you think of a better way to phrase the sentence, by any chance? "Includes" seems like the wrong word. I'll think about it too.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 22:52, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

order of article sections

I'd like to switch the community section with the history section if no one minds. This seems to conform to convention for neighborhood, town, and city articles. I'll wait for comments.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 16:02, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Good thought. It looks to me as if the usual order is: history first, geography second, and then descriptive material about the community. --MelanieN (talk) 16:12, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

P.S. Here is the guideline: Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities/US Guideline. --MelanieN (talk) 16:45, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

OK, good to know. There's a lot of duplication between sections and with wikilinks and so forth, it's looking like a big job to switch the order mostly because of the many little changes which will have to be done afterwards. I'm in favor of it, but probably can't get to it this morning.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 17:00, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

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Maybe some updates?

I grew up in OB, went to OB elementary and Correia and graduated PLHS. Newport isn’t and hasn’t been antique row for some time now. Why isn’t Nicos or Pomas mentioned...I digress, I think it is more factual to say Mike Hardins parents had a burger stand that eventually moved to Voltaire st, but Hodads on Newport didn’t open until 91 or so, not 69’ like the article states.

It might also be just me but the OB Pier being the longest concrete pier in the world...when just as many sites state just the west coast and others say USA.

Thank you for taking your time to read my mini-rant. :) Obboo2 (talk) 07:52, 23 October 2019 (UTC)